The Necessity of Bridging the Multigenerational Gap as told by a Gen Z
Turning heads, dropping jaws and imaginary question marks decorate
An Insider’s Perspective on Professional Growth (w/Kento)
We make resolutions that don’t seem to stick, then fall off the wagon
Consistency: A Transformative Key for Professional Growth
Goal setting vs. resolutions–it’s that time of the year again, Kento Joko, who’s in Business Development, shared in a chat. Here, he offers insights into the power of consistency, setting measurable goals and how habits play a crucial role in achieving what we desire. He also talks about how having others onboard your journey keeps you accountable for your pursuit of goals.
Take these strategies, implement and practice them regularly to ensure that consistency becomes habitual into your routine.
Next week, we will be releasing Kento’s entire #VoicesOf… podcast, where we discuss how good habits contributes to consistent behaviour.
Embracing Flaws for Personal and Professional Growth
Transcript of podcast:
Destiny: Welcome to GJC’s podcast, I’m your host Destiny Goh.
In an era where speed, skill, and scope greatly matter, everyone seems to anticipate the next big thing. Whether it’s technology, software, or service, they want to know what it can do for them and then reap the benefits of it.
But occasionally a glitch happens, and it undergoes numerous updates, rebuilding and refining until it becomes a desirable product.
This analogy is likened to humans—their strengths and weaknesses; how some people learn to thrive in challenges by embracing, but also working on refining their flaws.
With me today is Rebecca, a Consultant who’s been working for over a year in GJC, who will be sharing more of her career journey, her opinions, and her experiences on various matters of the Recruitment industry.
Rebecca: Hello, thank you for having me.
Destiny: So, Rebecca, before this if I remember correctly, you were working as a Sales Coordinator for a manufacturing company, and you made quite a switch into the Recruitment industry.
Rebecca: Yes, I did.
[00:44] Destiny: This role you’re currently in, a Window Person and Consultant, requires you to source and hunt for the best-fit candidates, liaising between clients and candidate management.
[00:44] Destiny: This role you’re currently in, a Window Person and Consultant, requires you to source and hunt for the best-fit candidates, liaising between clients and candidate management.
What was it like for you as you coped in a new, unfamiliar environment?
Rebecca: Well, perhaps I must backtrack a little. For me, navigating a new, unfamiliar environment wasn’t easy at first. Especially with my limited background and knowledge in the field of Recruitment and Construction Engineering, despite the initial challenges, such as product knowledge and learning the reins of stakeholder management, I persevered.
I reminded myself to maintain a positive mindset and to seek guidance from my experienced team members, especially when navigating the unknown. It took time, of course, but gradually things started to smooth out.
For this, I want to give some credit for the support and guidance I have gotten from my team, for helping me to overcome the initial difficulties in adapting to this environment.
[01:56] Destiny: So, you mentioned maintaining a positive mindset with your team members helped you learn better, can you share with us a situation where you practised such a ‘positive mindset’?
Rebecca: I feel that some people, including myself, tend to feel nervous when they are in a new environment or challenges that force them out of their comfort zone.
Eventually, some people choose to run away or use more negative emotions or ways to face this. As for me, I tell myself to try to take things as they come— one step at a time. Of course, these decisions took some time.
When I first joined GJC, I remember feeling intimidated by people’s facial expressions, actions, or how they would communicate.
This tends to make me shy away, like feeling unwanted, or shut myself out entirely. However, I realised a positive attitude stems from a positive mindset.
Your actions are shaped by your thoughts, and that encouraged me to take the first step. Because I knew my motive was to integrate well with my team, to learn, trust, and for collaborations to occur.
What I’m trying to say is, that cultivating a positive mindset really takes effort but it’s not impossible either. Lay out the pros and cons of a situation, and figure out the outcome you want to achieve with a positive attitude, and don’t overthink it.
Destiny: I agree. I think it’s not impossible to really cultivate a positive mindset, but I believe it needs to be done intentionally.
Or perhaps, sometimes, talking to a trusted friend or mentor might give you a clearer picture of the challenging situation you’re facing.
[03:38] Okay, so I have a burning question for you. I’m sure you get a lot of applicants who switch jobs only after working for a year or so because to them, job hopping from one to another stands a chance of getting higher pay than the last.
So as a Consultant like yourself, what are your thoughts about this? Is this a smart move to go with?
Rebecca: Yes, surprisingly, I do receive applications as such. But to be clear, it’s neither right nor wrong. I suppose at the end of the day, it really depends on what the person is looking for.
Some people might reason that one should stay longer to gain experience or learn as much as you can before you move, another person might quit because there isn’t room for growth, or perhaps they are in a different season in life, and they want different things.
For example, they are looking to get a house, pay their children’s tuition, and all those need a hefty sum of money. But my advice varies with the age group I’m dealing with.
Being with the engineering and construction portfolio, perhaps I’ll use some real-time examples from there.
For younger applicants, I’d ask them, like, what they are looking for, and run through it with them, their interests, prior experience, and try to find them the best fit role.
I think, it’s important to map out their career journey to give them an outlook of what their career journey in a company might look like, but then again It might change some months or years down the line.
Other factors of job hopping could be the absence of career growth, like I mentioned earlier, poor company cultures and leadership might also influence job hopping.
But at the end of the day, I do advise my applicants to learn as much as you can, get hands-on experience, and keep track of your progress because it all comes handy someday.
Destiny: Oh, I find that what you said to be such an eye-opener. I like the fact that you didn’t make it a one-size-fits-all advice, but instead, you really listened and empathised with the individual’s situation.
[05:39] So, when you’re sourcing for people for an open role, what’s the process like between finding someone that’s best fit for the role or the right person for the job?
Rebecca: Interesting question. Well. I’d say it’s easy to find the right person for the job, but finding the best fit for a role takes effort, it’s like finding a needle in a haystack.
I think the right people in this case might often have all the right skills and certificates you want, but they might not necessarily work well with team dynamics, or chemistry, as they call it.
They might not be as teachable as we thought; they know they are hired due to their qualification or perhaps their communication skills are lacking too. But that’s the beauty of it: you get others on board to fill in the gap for what one person is lacking, and that’s pretty much the core of teamwork.
Whereas, compared to a best-fit, these people usually are more open to learning and they are hungry for more because they are aware they don’t necessarily check all the boxes.
But they might have the experience or desire for career growth, and they might possess the soft skills needed, and it might be the golden opportunity for some.
[07:00] Destiny: I understand that you mentioned that there was some downtime where your sales weren’t doing so well. So do you see it as a you-problem? How do you navigate through those seasons?
Rebecca: I think it gets pretty competitive out there in an environment where sales target is often involved. Yes, part of it, I feel it was a you-problem because I felt the extra pressure to perform.
Recognising my closed-mindedness as a weakness was pivotal. There was a time when I firmly believed that my approach to tasks like resume search, candidate management, and interactions with candidates was always the best way through this.
Such a flaw became apparent during a challenging period of low sales performance, adversely affecting my job as I rejected feedback and dismissed alternative methods given by others. But as the results showed, I knew something needed to be done.
[07:56] Destiny: So, was there a reason that caused you to reject feedback?
Rebecca: Back then, I used to reject feedback because of my high self-esteem, believing strongly in the rightness of my actions. When someone pointed out my flaws or mistakes, I felt embarrassed, thinking that a small error shouldn’t have happened and afraid it would make others look down on me.
Yeah, it sounds silly, but in the working world, you don’t really want to show others what you are not good at, and only what you are capable of.
However, my perspective shifted when I chose to confront these small issues. I began to appreciate it when someone pointed out my mistakes, recognising that it was because they cared about me to do so.
I realised that I need to be my own advocate when others are trying to help me. If I don’t do this for myself, who will? These thoughts emerged after I understood that running away from such a situation was a mistake.
And through the insights from my managers and much self-reflection, I slowly began to acknowledge that my methods weren’t the best approach.
I allowed pride to get in my way, thinking that everything I knew was correct.
[09:08] Destiny: So, as a Consultant, I understand there’s KPIs to hit, which then reflects your performance ultimately.
And what are some aspects do you consider as weakness, that you realise would potentially affect your performance?
Rebecca: In this case, for instance, I used to believe that going through a candidate’s skill set or experience with key points is crucial, and that’s pretty much it.
But I suppose I neglected building relationships and understanding their needs; I also didn’t bother to ask about their future plans or any concerns that might arise.
Another weakness was that my conversation style was casual, and I didn’t carefully choose words or phrase sentences. Some people pointed out that I sounded fierce or unhappy when I was talking to the candidate, but I didn’t care much and thought I was doing it right.
Destiny: I think it’s really great that you became self-aware. But I suppose you had your fair share of contemplating whether to work on your weaknesses or just sweep them under the rug.
So what triggered your need to improve? Was it the feedback you’ve been getting or the results?
Rebecca: As much as I don’t want to admit, yes, the result wasn’t showing, and my daily operations were not up to my standard. It has made me feel it’s time for a change.
If I don’t change now, I might stay this way forever—being complacent and getting satisfactory results forever. Coupled with that, It is also not easy to be pointed out by others.
So, I told myself that if I’m not willing to change, even for myself, I might just lose out on other opportunities for growth. It was a turning point in my life.
Destiny: Well, that’s so great that you finally took the opportunity to really self-reflect— there was a lot of self-reflection that went behind the scenes.
[11:02] So, now let’s discuss about mental health.
Can you describe what it was like back then, when you struggled to cope with the pressure to perform well, coupled with the feedback that you were getting, how do you strike a balance in keeping up and showing up?
Rebecca: Wow, thanks for asking. Well, I think we are all like salesperson in our own way; every other day, we try to sell ideas or project pitches, and in my case, it’s candidate placement and staffing.
Honestly, it can get quite challenging, as we have to deal with figures and numbers. Of course, we feel more relaxed when the figures are good, and stressed when the numbers are falling beneath a target.
I used to think that numbers never lie, so I felt even more stressed when my sales performance was not ideal, which resulted in me overworking on many occasions. However, it came to a point where I realised working around the clock wasn’t going to be very sustainable in the long run. And that I should plan and execute instead of blindly doing things.
As an attempt to strike a balance, I reminded myself to take one step at a time and not result to overthink and overstressing when the numbers are not ideal. Instead, I should think about why the sales are good, and why they are low, and like what are the key things changed behind the scenes?
Understanding the situation greatly helped me develop a better plan and learn something valuable.
I also encourage myself to take a break, think, plan, and restart. And this improved things and prevented me from draining my energy and mental resources. It gives me a chance to recharge and boost my energy.
In the grand scheme of things, adopting a measured and thoughtful approach contributed to the long-term sustainability of our efforts. Also, it’s a reminder that recognising challenges and actively seeking solutions enhance professional capabilities and nurture resilience, turning the tough moments into invaluable learning experiences.
Destiny: Wow, I’m so happy for you that you found your breakthrough because it’s never easy to have so many things going on at once. And to find the silver lining of things really does require much effort on your part.
Rebecca: Yes, I agree.
[13:38] Destiny: So, the big question is, how do you thrive while embracing your flaws and imperfections?
Rebecca: I think the first step was identifying the areas I wanted to change. I went old-school, and made a list of what I wanted to improve, and that action helped me to set a clearer direction and the mindset I chose to settle with—I guess you could say it’s my little roadmap for improvement.
Next, which I think was so important, was the community I surrounded myself with. I knew change would take a significant amount of time, but I also knew I couldn’t do it alone either.
I needed support from people I could trust. I have a few close friends who I share my struggles with, and they have been a great help, in helping me compartmentalise, and their empathy was something I’m grateful for.
I believe speaking to experienced elders can really help, because they give practical solutions to me.
Destiny: Because of their experiences.
Rebecca: I suppose, ultimately, to really thrive is to understand imperfections are a part of life.
I made it a point to continually learn and grow from my experience, applying the lessons I gathered from self-reflection and the wisdom of others.
Such a process greatly helped me to navigate challenges with greater resilience and openness to change.
[15:21] Destiny: Wow, I like the fact that you got other people involved instead of doing everything yourself because I feel that sometimes having a community that really understands you and who pushes you toward growth, is so much help to someone’s personal growth.
And so, throughout this process of embracing and working on your weaknesses, do you feel like you were building something or were looking to gain something out of that entire season?
Rebecca: Oh, for sure, yes. I was hoping to get something out of the effort and time I put into improving my performance and development. Of course, back then, I didn’t exactly have it all figured out from the start. But the desire to improve was the catalyst for change to take place.
I didn’t realise this almost immediately, but as I faced challenge after challenge, and unwilling to back down, I built resilience. Resilience encouraged me to bounce back from adversity, learn from failures, and maintain a positive mindset when facing difficulties.
To me, tackling and conquering challenges are the perfect opportunity for growth.
Next, I felt like I built adaptability during that season. Speaking from experience, it wasn’t easy for me to embrace change or adjust quickly to new circumstances.
I would watch how others handle situations—I learned from their mistake and success, then improvise.
The ability to adapt helped me to navigate various environments and contribute significantly to my personal and professional growth. Change is the only constant. By cultivating adaptability, you’ll survive and thrive in an ever-evolving world.
And finally, this is something I feel is so important that it links closely to what I was sharing earlier on mental health. Cultivating self-love is fundamental to a healthy mental health journey. Accept yourself, acknowledge your worth, and prioritise self-care.
Building a positive relationship with yourself can positively impact your mental well-being. And I feel that it helps you to navigate stress and maintain a healthier perspective on life.
And be kind to yourself, that’s what I think.
Destiny: Oh, that’s so good, being kind to yourself.
So thanks for sharing, Rebecca, for bringing me along on your journey of self-discovery and growth. It’s been a real pleasure speaking to you.
Rebecca: The pleasure is mine.
Destiny: Yeah, and I think there are so many useful and actionable pointers here that our listeners can potentially benefit from, especially if they’re struggling to find balance in their career and personal lives.
I guess the parting statement for today is: to be kind to yourself, to always look for and create opportunities for growth.
Thank you for listening to GJC’s podcast. See you soon, next time.
Podcast written and edited by Destiny Goh
Marketing Communications Executive
A Gen Z’s Perspective of Bridging Generational Barriers
Maybe there are some things we can relearn from the younger generation–rethinking resilience and learning from your experiences through organic growth.
Transcript of Podcast:
[00:00:00] DESTINY: Hello, my name is Destiny, and this is GJC’s podcast. As Asians, we have unspoken rules, traditions, and beliefs that were passed down through generations. And we never question them because you do what you have to do to survive and provide.
The younger generation, or rather the Gen Zs, are a unique bunch. They’re young, vibrant, vocal, and brave. They do things that we never considered normal long ago. However, there are several social stigmas placed on this particular bunch claiming that they took life way too easily, not resilient, are social media addicts, and are possibly easily offended. They also have high expectations towards their employers, short attention spans, and the list goes on.
But these stereotypes can be broken if you take some time to really understand and get to know them, to try to see things through their point of view, and not force our beliefs down their throat. It’s our job to be role models as the older generation, to explain to them why things are done in a certain way to maintain order.
But also welcome ideas and really listen to understand, put aside judgment, and to give them the opportunity to learn and grow alongside them. We need to educate, contribute, discuss, exchange, empathise and support. It’s time to make room for change.
After all, these are the people of the next generation who will one day lead us.
With me today is Zia Xin, a consultant specialising in recruitment for the Banking and Financial services portfolio, who’s been working at Good Job Creations for well over a year and three months now. She graduated with an accounting degree from Nanyang Technological University, and her desire for a career that would allow her to interact with people from all walks of life has brought her to recruitment.
Though thriving in her role, her journey here was no easy feat. Here’s Zia Xin, who will be sharing her story with you.
ZIA XIN: Hi, everyone; this is Zia Xin. I’m so glad to be on this podcast. It’s my pleasure to be able to share my humble experience in recruitment and what I’ve learned so far with you all.
[00:01:59] DESTINY: Thank you, Zia Xin. So, being one of our youngest individuals working in GJC, what is your perspective on time? And do you think time is on your side, especially when figuring out what you want to do regarding your career?
ZIA XIN: Yes, just to clarify in advance, I am not speaking on behalf of anyone else. Just want to share my perspective as someone who was born in this generation where most of us had access to technologies and widespread information.
Regarding my perspective of time, this is honestly a very difficult question as I know that I’m still working on making friends with time. Personally, there are so many external factors that will affect my view of time, including the urgency of the matter, the importance and value of the matter, the available resources to accomplish the matter, etc. When it comes to planning my career, I have to say, I struggled a lot in managing my relationship with time.
As some of you out there may resonate, I felt lost and wasn’t sure where I was heading towards at one point. Or whether what I was doing daily could push me towards the direction I was looking to go into. So during such moments, I feel rushed and anxious, especially so when there are people around me who shares about their career planning, goals, and all their goals laid out.
So on top of that, time was never really enough for me for the lifestyle I’m looking to maintain. So, I guess I’m looking to balance productive time I spend on work, but also on other hobbies, interests, as well as social life. So from there, I realised I may have to compromise further on certain activities to clear up space for me to eventually work on my future planning.
So, a very straightforward way to manage all these aspects of life is really for me to rank the priority and urgency of all these activities separately, individually. And then thereafter, I’ll break down these bigger goals into smaller objectives and plan during the start of every week. You know, how much I want to accomplish for each of these aspects for this week and then adapt and adjust accordingly.
So, with this way of managing time, I haven’t been feeling overwhelmed, and at the same time, I can acknowledge myself for the little checkpoints I have managed to achieve. So hopefully, this will support us in the long way.
[00:04:22] DESTINY: Thanks for sharing, Zia Xin.
And as you know, the older generation didn’t have the luxury of time back in the day. It was all hustle and long work hours, and today, the new generation seems to have a different way of thinking, as they see the importance of figuring out first before they attach themselves to a long-term commitment.
ZIA XIN: Right.
DESTINY: In this aspect, career. This creates a stigma that the younger generation are indecisive or may even be perceived as living life without any ambition or goals.
So, what are your thoughts about this? And how do we break this stigma of such views on the younger generation?
ZIA XIN: Right, I have heard of these comments circling around too, definitely. And I believe the fact is, priorities across different generations have definitely shifted. I often share these discussions with my parents as well, to understand how life was for them, but also to communicate our ideals.
So a simple and quick illustration of what I mean by difference in priorities could be. For example, back then, the priority for my parents was more to achieve financial stability for their families, be it their family of origin or to build a new family.
It was very simple and straightforward; it didn’t really occur to them to find a job that they were passionate about, that they enjoyed or that they loved, whichever job brings stability and security, right? That’s a great opportunity.
DESTINY: Yeah.
ZIA XIN: Hence, it’s all about the long hours of dedication the line of work that they chose What is more, is that the potential of technology has yet to be discovered then. Many processes are done manually, which is naturally more time-consuming.
DESTINY: That’s right.
ZIA XIN: So, they will spend more time at their work. In contrast, some, if not most of us, in our current generation, can exercise greater freedom and flexibility in decision making. And this isn’t to say our parents lacked options. But rather, we are fortunate to live in an era abundant with resources and information, which definitely drives change. So, there is a change in priorities here, as well as the speed of getting work done.
Many of us in this generation are known to be tech-savvy, so we can make use of tools that are available to us and achieve the intended outcome in a shorter time frame. So, eventually, as we get exposed to further insights of the ever-changing workforce, our career choices will inevitably be influenced.
This is due to the multiple paths available to us that can lead us to reach the same goal. So similarly, when there’s an abundance of choices, I still admire and respect many of us who invest time, money, and effort, in grooming ourselves to be ready for whichever path we take.
[00:06:55] DESTINY: Well, thanks for sharing, Zia Xin.
So, in effort, you know that we, the older generation, can potentially overcome this bias stigma towards the younger generation. So, what are some efforts in your opinion could be done so we’d be able to find common ground, to respect, collaborate and work harmoniously, especially at the workplace?
ZIA XIN: Yes, this is a very great question, which I believe not just you may have it’s a not a question that you only you may have a lot of my peers would also have the same doubts or concern.
DESTINY: I see
ZIA XIN: And I believe they are definitely more than one way to approach this issue. But personally, I have been adopting these two styles. So, one of them is the two way mentorship between me and my direct reporting, which is my team lead, as well as a roundtable discussion within the team.
So, for instance, my team lead and I always provide each other with feedback and share our opinions on most of the work matters, and the purpose of this is to make sure that we comprehend where we’re both coming from. Then only we can come to a common understanding and then brainstorm further for the best approach to deal with a certain case.
In our situation, it would be about candidate management cases, client communication issues, so on and so forth. As for roundtable discussion, this would be the best in terms of how we interact and communicate in a team. So definitely more than two people.
So, we usually bring up our concerns or doubts about cases or issues at work and share with everyone. And as each of us, each of these consultants, has a different way of working, the insights that we will be able to get—together from a simple discussion—definitely far exceed what we can find from the internet alone.
Now this doesn’t mean that we impose our expectations or our way of working on others; it’s more of a platform to widen our perspectives and expand our options to manage a case.
DESTINY: I think it’s a great way that you mentioned your team leader really takes the effort to give your team feedback directly instead of just, you know, not talking about it at all.
And I think also, the ability to discuss with one another, exchanging perspectives, I think that’s a very good approach in working and collaborating together.
ZIA XIN: Yes, definitely.
[00:09:14] DESTINY: So, I think maybe perhaps back then, especially in the Asian culture, emotions, feelings, and mental health were a touchy-feely subject that most would like to avoid because it portrayed a sign of weakness or vulnerability.
But the newer generation has caught on and has realised the problems with ignoring our mental wellness and suppressing our dreams and ambitions and come up with better ideas, and strategies on how we can take care of ourselves better.
[00:09:52] DESTINY: So, Zia Xin, as a young individual like yourself in the workforce, committing wholly to a career doesn’t just happen because you want it to. I mean, I’d say dedicated, yes, because I believe you want to give your best in your role.
So, when will you eventually have it all figured out?
ZIA XIN: Ah, this is a very good question and it’s a tricky question. I do identify myself to be one of those who aspire to find our so-called right path before committing myself to a long-term career journey. So do allow, oh, do allow me to clarify my definition of committing.
I am still committed, like what you say, to doing my best in my current job, no doubt. But I’m still finding meaning in what I do as of now, but also in the future, whether it aligns with what I am interested in. So, I do have a long-term picture, as of now, drawn out of where I will be, but do I have it in clarity?
Frankly speaking, not quite, not quite. But that doesn’t mean that I haven’t been putting in work behind the scenes to eventually map out the career path I’m aiming to build. And there’s no time frame as of now, I have to be honest.
DESTINY: And can you share with us, what are some efforts that you mentioned earlier towards mapping out your desired career path?
ZIA XIN: For this one, it’s quite straightforward. Mainly I’m talking about building transferable and intangible skills, such as how we process feedback and turn them into constructive criticisms, regardless of the circumstances. So, this is actually a way to help us build resilience as well.
On top of that, I was given really great opportunities in my current job to build upon my stakeholder management skills because I do deal with people from different backgrounds, industries and different seniority levels.
And I have to say this really stems from the confidence and support given by my team members; kudos to them. So far, I’ve been elaborating a lot about soft skills because I believe hard skills can be learned and practiced through textbooks, research or reading, or even online materials.
But these intangible skills are definitely better learned through real-life experiences with actual human beings. They can definitely, they will definitely come in handy regardless of whatever career I choose in the future. And oh, this may be my biased opinion. But I don’t see that there is a better way of working, for example, whether we commit to one long-term career right now or we plan out for the future.
Because we achieve different things with the way we operate. Although, I do agree that at some point in time, after a few years into the workforce, it will be beneficial for us, from the perspective of time, that we already get a clearer map and a firm direction. So, to prove as a result of the work we have been putting in since a younger age.
[00:12:53] DESTINY: So, I think the next question has been circling a lot between my peers previously. And the question goes like this.
So, do you think money or family background has a play in being able to afford to take breaks?
Because some people can afford to take a gap year or two from studying or, you know, perhaps before jumping into the work life and then talk about, take some time to discover yourself, your interests, your passion, or travel the world, explore, figure out what you want to do before the long term commitment, or just simply take a break.
So, what do you think, Zia Xin?
ZIA XIN: Okay, this is something that has been going on in our generation as well. Definitely, I have peers who have taken a break during studies. I also have peers who decided to take a break after one or two years of working.
DESTINY: I see.
ZIA XIN: So, personally, I think it’s highly relative to the previous discussion where I mentioned the difference in priorities in life. So, especially, okay, besides the priorities in life, the environment and background, and of course, the financial ability, which you mentioned, will also play a part in shaping our priorities.
So, for example, if I were born into a family with little to no financial freedom, education in itself may already be challenging to complete. So, my priority would be to get into the workforce as soon as possible and generate income to support my family.
So, in this case, it probably doesn’t matter to me too much whether I’m passionate about the field I was working in.
So, similarly, I won’t choose to take breaks that may pause the flow of income. But in contrast, if I grew up in an environment where there is financial stability and freedom, paired with parents who adopts experiential learning since young, this would definitely have constructed an environment where I would naturally be looking for opportunities to venture.
So, my priority here would be to find which path can take me further in life as well as what I want to do in the longer term. In contrast, with traditional strict parenting that believes in committing to a long-term successful career as soon as we graduate. Then regardless of wealth, I would say I’d be influenced one way or another to choose the correct path early in my career.
And then I’ll just stick through it to generate wealth and achieve success.
DESTINY: I think that’s a very interesting perspective coming from a younger generation talking about how finance really, finances really play a role in terms of commitment.
ZIA XIN: It does.
DESTINY: So, in that case, what about students who don’t have enough financial freedom but are looking? You know, to take a breather, what can be done, money aside?
ZIA XIN: Okay. Personally, from what I have observed, this does not speak for everyone. If you’re looking to take a breather from education, and you have a bit of limitation in terms of finances, you wouldn’t want to go on trips, then I would recommend that you can explore part-time jobs or internships which you are interested in, or you are passionate in.
Investing your time in something that you like, I’m pretty sure that is, first of all, fruitful, that will be healthy also. At the same time, you can generate side income. So yeah, that will be a great way. But in the meantime, you can also take this chance to find out whether this is where you like to develop a career in, for the long term. So yeah, win-win situation.
But vice versa. If you’re looking to take a break from a job, so you don’t want to keep working, no studies, then why not try out budget traveling? So do not write this option off completely. You can still travel. We just have to find out a way. So, do your research, figure out a way, improvise, and then adapt. See if there’s a way for you to travel, and have fun, but also within a certain budget.
DESTINY: I like what you talked about. Don’t write off the option traveling off completely because I think here the key skill that you can learn from something like this is to improvise and really, not just make do, but I guess if, if you really wanted something, then go get it, work for it.
[00:17:05] DESTINY: So, when should a student start to think about their careers? What can they do to prepare themselves? What are your thoughts about this, Zia Xin?
ZIA XIN: Okay, honestly Isn’t this just a journey of trial and error until we discover where we want to stay? Because is there really a best time to start thinking about one’s career? Because I know some of us held on to the same aspirations that we had since we were four or five years old.
And some of us only started to think about it during the university period, where we were able to get more clarity on the options that we may have. But some of us only identified a direction after years of working because that’s how they eventually stumble upon what feels right for them after trial and error across a few jobs, employments and industries.
So in my opinion, these all seem to be the right timings. However, there may be some of us who would want to shorten the time spent on discovery.
So, if that is the case, I would suggest that you identify a specific field already, where you’d love to put more time and effort into researching your career options from there.
Instead of giving yourself too many options, too wide of a variety, better do that instead. And then, the downside however, there is a downside to this method. Because you will restrict yourself from potential opportunities outside of that box, so it is up to you, and regardless of your choice, I want to encourage all of us just to trust the process and fine-tune from there on.
DESTINY: So, I think, here’s the thing about interest because I believe that, you know, once you’re committed to something, it all starts from a small interest. And the thing about interest is it needs to be triggered repeatedly through this experience, through your experiences and encounters.
ZIA XIN: Yes, definitely.
DESTINY: And I remember, you know, one of my favourite self-help books called Grit, the book written by this psychologist, Angela Duckworth. She has once said that in her book: Interests are not discovered through introspection. Instead, they are triggered by interactions you make with the outside world.
And without experience and without experimenting, you can’t figure out, you know, what, which interest will stick, and which won’t. By incorporating fun and creating learning experiences for yourself, figure out what you like to do and stick with it, you know, and be good at it through deliberate practice.
ZIA XIN: Yeah.
DESTINY: Don’t worry if it changes over time. It happens, you know; it’s only you’re no longer interested in what you were initially doing. It’s normal. And yeah, and it’s okay, I think. But while you’re doing it, while you’re at it, give your best efforts and learn all that you can.
[00:19:41] DESTINY: So, next question, this question will be directed towards your career. So, was recruitment your first choice when choosing your career? Why did you stay?
ZIA XIN: Okay. Yeah, this is very interesting. As Destiny has previously shared, you know, regarding my background, I came from Accounting. So initially, I opted for an Accounting degree, thinking that it will bring me stability in the future because that is what I have been told, you know, it’s a stable career.
But after I went through the first year of Uni, I knew I was not developing a long-term career in the accounting field. Unfortunately, neither did I excel in Accounts as compared to my peers, nor was I really passionate in finance then.
So, I was venturing my options. I thought I’d like to develop further in a career where I get to interact with people as part of my job, which then redirected my anchor to looking at career opportunities within the HR sector.
And that’s how I started to explore the recruitment options. So fast forward to my interview with GJC for the recruitment consultant role. Elaine, which is my manager, has played a big part in helping me understand what recruitment is like. She was very devoted and made me feel so comfortable during her sharing.
Truth be told, I did have reservations about the idea of sales, but it was really a great opportunity for me to develop organic growth as I spoke to people from all walks of life at different seniority. So, I stayed on because of the intangible learning and the stakeholder management skills, which I mentioned earlier, especially for a junior like me.
Cause I’m pretty sure I don’t get these kinds of opportunities every day. So, on top of that is that the industrial insight I get from my candidates, from my clients, my team leaders, people, and my seniors around me, those are all precious information that I can keep and use in the future.
[00:21:31] DESTINY: I like how you talked about organic growth and just really learning anything, something new from scratch, instead of going someplace where you think that you deserve it just because of your perhaps whatever stated on your paper. So, I think that’s a very good, you know, perspective from you.
And from what you were telling me earlier, you graduated with a degree in Accounting. But the finance and the banking and finance portfolio is very niche and requires you to speak with mostly candidates who have plenty of years of experience in the field. So how do you navigate through these situations?
Because I know, for one, it is so difficult. What were some of the challenges that you faced?
ZIA XIN: So, this is a very good question, and it is very relevant to what’s going on with me right now. It could be intimidating, as you shared. Because for our Banking and Finance portfolio, just to give you a bit of background, we basically deal with candidates and clients coming from, who are specialising in banks or non-banking financial institutions.
So I liaise and interact with front, middle and back-office professionals of different seniority. As you mentioned, one of the significant challenges that I was facing at the start of my career was the understanding of technical terms and contextual knowledge that is really required when we speak to all these candidates.
Understandably, candidates enjoy communicating with recruiters that know what they are looking for and what is needed to support them in securing the opportunity. So, I always felt like I lacked such expertise which resulted in experiencing imposter syndrome at times. But regardless, I try my best to gather enough intel around to make sure I am adding on values for my candidates.
[00:23:29] DESTINY: And if I’m not wrong, this year, you’re only 23. And already you’re in such a niche portfolio, learning everything from scratch. I really do respect what you do. And in regard to, previously, you mentioned that you did experience something called the imposter syndrome.
Could you perhaps elaborate further on, you know, this particular syndrome and how did you overcome it?
ZIA XIN: Oh, yes, I definitely would love to share. This syndrome usually kicks in when I’m assigned to new job openings and roles by our clients to fulfil when I have a limited understanding of the job. This means that I have no full context of how this role or what this job entails.
So, usually, in such situations, I’ll approach it with the following three steps. First, research about the client. So, what do I know about this client? What is their business about? How are they viewed by the candidates in the market?
And then moving on, researching about the role itself—about this job. What are the key requirements that we see across the industry? And then with that, I can get a deeper understanding of how it is, it could be, like working in this job.
And then the last point is to target the right candidates. So, for this one, I am really grateful to my team leader and manager because they have been guiding me so closely since day one.
My team lead, who has an extensive background in Banking, always manages to draw a clear picture of all these roles and about all these job openings. Although I may not have a Banking and Financial background, I can’t say that having studied Accounting did not help out with picking up certain knowledge of this role.
DESTINY: Yeah, because I do understand that in the Banking and Finance sector, there are many, many roles, and quite a number of them are niche roles, and to take the time to really understand what a particular role is required of a candidate takes a lot of, I would say, a lot of studying in the background.
So, I think, in other words, taking initiative on your end and making an effort greatly helps instead of solely relying on other people to teach us. So, at the same time, having a relationship with helpful and experienced people is a plus point too. And I think you would also ask questions that make them think as well.
So it’s not just like a take-and-take relationship between you and your team leader. But also, you add value to your team. I think even when you don’t even realise it.
ZIA XIN: Yup, very essential.
[00:25:59] DESTINY: So, Zia Xin, you’re one of the youngest members of your team, of more experienced and qualified adults. Can you give the audience a glimpse of what communication and working together between you and your team look like?
ZIA XIN: Oh, definitely. So, in our team, we value close communication, strong teamwork, and transparency a lot. So as a junior, as the junior of the team, I have been absorbing so much new knowledge and gaining exposure from each of my senior team members. I’m really grateful that they have always been so patient and understanding to my queries.
Similarly, we share a lot regarding any client or candidate issues, which I mentioned earlier, for case studies. It’s actually a way, a form of learning for us. And this helps so much in identifying better ways to navigate and improving our quality as consultants.
So on a side note, I have received tremendous support and constructive feedback from them. And that, once again, pushes my learning further.
[00:25:59] DESTINY: I think when you mentioned the idea about discussing case studies, this is something that doesn’t really happen often, I feel in terms of collaboration within a team and studying what went wrong and what could be improved in the next round.
I think this is something that even I potentially will want to consider to adopt this, because I’m also working in a team, and I think this would be very useful for me as well.
So, what would you advise your juniors who may be working with and struggling to communicate with older colleagues?
ZIA XIN: Oh, okay. In short, I have to say this in the most cliche way. So, with an open heart and open mindset, and showing respect for others with these three foundations, we can pretty much work with anyone.
Because we’d be putting ourselves in each other’s shoes, trying to comprehend the direction of where they were coming from, and then brainstorm a solution and eventually come to a common agreement.
Though it’s not every time we manage to come to a uniform conclusion, ultimately, I believe showing respect for one another’s differences is essential. Consequently, I believe this trains our adaptability in the workforce, which is also considered one of the most valued soft skills, especially in our current era of globalisation.
DESTINY: I like how you mentioned showing respect for others because I think as a young person, you know, speaking in the midst of so many people who are much more experienced and way older, I think that sometimes it’s a good reminder for myself as well to, I guess, not to be the smart aleck and assume. Something you think you know everything, but in reality, there’s so many things that we still haven’t considered.
And I think that going in a project or any collaboration with an open mind is so important because I think not to have these preconceived thoughts about certain people or the way things are done.
But I think going in with a totally neutral mind and the idea of honouring others, you know, for their skill set, for the experience and doing our best to work together. It’s such an important value, especially working in a corporate culture.
ZIA XIN: I agree.
[00:29:20] DESTINY: Thank you so much, Zia Xin, for taking the time out of your busy schedule to be on this podcast. And I believe our audience, especially the younger ones, would have greatly benefited from your insights, advice and experience.
You’re listening to good job creations till then. See you again next month.
Podcast written and edited by Destiny Goh
Marketing Communications Executive
Emotional Quotient in a Special Video with Gabriel Tan
Everyone understands the importance of Emotional Quotient (EQ) otherwise known as Emotional Intelligence (EI). Since young, our parents have always stressed the consequences of a low Emotional Quotient.
Gearing up toward episode 7 of #VoicesOf, we thought we’d preview our topic of the month: Emotional Intelligence.
An ex-banker turn Sr. Consultant, Tan Gabriel, shares the importance of Emotional Intelligence and why it matters in a people-first industry. Creating thoughtful conversational threads and practising active listening are keys to building long-lasting and meaningful relationships.
Next week, tune in as we will be releasing Gabriel’s full interview in a Podcast.
Special Video About Gen Z and Time Management with Zia Xin
Discussions about Gen Z (born in 1997 and 2012) have garnered attention, and most are somehow negative. Comments such as social media addicts, loud, overly emotional, lazy, and taking life too easy have been circling the internet and in the conversations of the older generation. These labels become identifiers to label Gen Z.
It takes acceptance, listening, and trying to find ways to encourage collaboration between multigenerational individuals. In this video interview, Zia Xin, a recruitment consultant of the Banking and Finance portfolio, shares her concept of time management as a young individual in the workplace.
She offers three easy tips that she adopts daily to manage all her tasks effectively and efficiently. Despite comments and sayings about the younger generation not utilising their time well, give them a chance and see how they do it.
Take what resonates with you.
Special Video on Adapting with Keika Aoki
Adapting in an unknown environment is challenging. Change is part of life. Whether it’s a working environment or migrating to a new country, it will require one’s adaptability skill. For some adapting comes in naturally, but adaptability is a natural skill that anyone can develop and mastered overtime.
Meet Kay Aoki, who grew up in the US, UK and Sweden; over a decade later, she and her family moved back to Japan, where she completed her education. Then, off she moved to sunny Singapore to start her first career in Recruitment—talk about an adventurous spirit! All that happened 3.5 years ago; today, she’s a Business Development Team Leader, leading a team of her own in the service industry.
Next week, we will be releasing Keika’s full #VoicesOf… podcast, where she recounts her experiences as a foreigner navigating through the countries she has lived in and restarting life all over again. She also recalls the challenges she has faced and how she overcame them, how she still holds her Japanese roots close to her heart, and tips and advice on how to build on the skill of #adaptability.
#Voicesof…Keika-san: Adaptability in The Unknown
Catch a sneak peek here:
or stream the full episode on:
Japanese-born Keika Aoki, shares about moving and adapting in the unknown environment outside of her homeland.
Japanese version of the podcast transcript
Transcript of Podcast:
[00:00:00] Destiny: You’re listening to GJC’s podcast. I’m your host, Destiny Goh.
Getting out of your comfort zone can be both daunting and exciting. It’s the adrenaline rush and the fear of uncertainty of not knowing what awaits you.
Some might come up with a conclusion to say the grass isn’t always greener on the other side, but despite that conclusion drawn, I think it’s what you’ve experienced, learned, and built through it all that makes it count.
[00:00:26] Destiny: I enjoy listening to the stories of people who’ve been to other corners of the world, whether it’s for education, the start of a new life, or even career.
I believe they have amazing stories to share, especially ones that have to do with adaptability— how they adapt into a new place so well, how they make new friends, how they fit in at their new workplaces, and how they overcome challenges and valuable life lessons that they carry with them.
[00:00:51] Destiny: Joining me on this podcast today is my guest, Keika Aoki. Keika has previously lived in the US, UK and Sweden.
Then after completing her tertiary education in Japan, she decided to move to Singapore to start a career in recruitment.
And it’s been three and a half years since she’s joined GJC and she’s here to share about her experience navigating through Singapore as a foreigner, how she adapted into a new country and career, the challenges and obstacles in and out of work, as well as some valuable life lessons she’s picked up throughout her life living abroad.
[00:01:24] Destiny: Hi, Keika. Thank you for joining me today on this podcast. How are you feeling today?
[00:01:28] Keika: Hi, Destiny. Yeah, I’m feeling great. Thank you.
[00:01:31] Destiny: Can you share with me more about your life back when you were living in the U. S., U.K., and Sweden? How would you describe your life there?
[00:01:41] Keika: Okay, so maybe just for context, before moving to Japan for high school, I grew up overseas, specifically US, UK, Sweden for close to 13 years, and the reason why I was there is due to my dad’s work.
[00:01:58] Keika: He was doing corporate strategy for a Japanese electronics company back then. So, my family and I would follow him wherever he was stationed.
And yeah, I’d say, as hectic as it was having to move maybe every two, three years growing up, it was definitely exciting. And yeah, it was never boring because obviously we were moving around different countries, being exposed to different cultures. It definitely taught me a lot of things growing up.
[00:02:37] Destiny: And out of these three countries, which one was your, by far, your favourite?
[00:02:42] Keika: I’d say UK. I lived in London for five years. Yeah, I have a lot of good memories from when I was there.
[00:02:53] Destiny: Was there anything that you miss most about those countries?
[00:02:57] Keika: Definitely. I miss the aesthetics of London. Everything is really beautiful there. The buildings, the way everything is structured.
And, because personally, I enjoy western food. I do miss the food as much as everyone says that, you know, UK food is not good, I actually enjoyed it.
[00:03:21] Destiny: So, what was your favourite dish back then?
[00:03:23] Keika: See, there’s no dish. I just enjoy western food in general. So, when I moved back to Japan, because everything is mostly Japanese food. Um, it did take some time to get used to it.
[00:03:37] Destiny: And do you experience a culture shock back when you moved to Japan after living abroad for so many years?
So, moving back to your home country, was it exciting? Was it frightening? How was it like for you?
[00:03:50] Keika: Yeah, definitely. When I first, when my parents first told me that we were moving back to Japan, I cried, like I bawled my eyes out because of how much I didn’t want to move back to Japan.
Just because, growing up overseas as a Japanese, but having no experience living in Japan, it was like I was Japanese, but there was nothing in really Japanese about me that I personally resonated with.
[00:04:24] Keika: So, it was definitely frightening to have to move back or, you know, like move to a new place that was supposed to be my home.
And definitely when I moved to Japan, everything was a culture shock.
Like the way people behave, the values, even the lifestyle was very different. It was the first Asian country that I lived in. So, yeah, it was different.
Because I would go to Japan for summer or winter holiday, maybe every two years, but it was very different having to travel there and to live there. So, yeah, everything was different.
[00:05:07] Destiny: How was life like back in Japan for you? How long did it take you to settle down?
[00:05:16] Keika: Definitely the first, maybe two, three years, I’d say I was quite unstable. Maybe because I was a teenager or because I was still getting used to the environment.
But now that I think about it… not that I was lashing out at my parents but just looking back to like the way I was feeling back then and my behaviours, I think I was under a lot of stress.
[00:05:49] Destiny: How do you finally manage to overcome this stressful period and eventually fitting in and then meeting new friends
[00:06:02] Keika: Um, luckily, making friends was never something that I struggled with. I had friends, but really feeling comfortable in Japan took maybe three years for me. And the way I did it was, I think just be humble, like accept that I was in a different place.
And that everything that I knew until that point was going to be different naturally in a different country.
[00:06:33] Keika: And also, to try to see the good in each culture. So, I think in the first maybe two, three, I kept thinking, I kept looking at the bad part of Japan, like, you know, the cultural, there were just some things that I just couldn’t get used to in Japan that I didn’t have to experience back when I was overseas, so…
Yeah, I just kept looking at the bad things, but once I started to notice the good things about Japanese culture, Japanese history, it really helped me to really love the country.
[00:07:14] Destiny: Why do you choose a career in recruitment?
[00:07:16] Keika: Okay, so I chose recruitment as my career right out of university because I wanted to start somewhere that will allow me to have a real general understanding of the corporate world.
And in that sense, recruitment, in my opinion, was the best choice because it allowed me to be exposed to various industries as well as really allow me to have an understanding of how corporate organisations are structured.
[00:07:46] Destiny: And how do you find meaning in your job?
[00:07:48] Keika: Okay, so in my first couple of years, my role was very meaningful to me because it really allowed me to be in connection with so many different people, whether it be the HR of an organisation, top management to C-suite level people.
So, it really gave me opportunity to meet with many new people. And currently, for now, I’m leading a team of four members in the business development team.
So now I find meaning in my job by guiding junior members and yeah, just listening to their struggles, thinking of how to overcome those struggles together.
[00:08:36] Destiny: Mm-hmm. Could you share with us what are some cultural differences you found to be different between Singapore and your home country, Japan?
[00:08:44] Keika: I’d say that my experience relocating to Singapore was much smoother than what other people would typically experience, just because I already had experience living overseas from a young age.
I’d say I’m relatively accustomed to adapting to different communities, but still having experience living in the, say, U.S., U.K., and Sweden was very different from living in Singapore, which was the first Southeast Asian country that I lived in.
And I’d say the main cultural difference between Singapore and Japan is just how friendly and open people in general are.
[00:09:26] Keika: So not saying that people in Japan are not friendly, but usually strangers are just, I mean, like polite or cordial to each other, but in Singapore, I noticed that regardless of whether you personally know each other or not, people are generally warmer and more accepting.
So, one example of this would be just when I, when I just joined this company, my colleagues would invite me over to their houses for holidays and special occasions, which doesn’t usually happen in Japan unless you’re really close to the person.
[00:10:06] Destiny: Well, that’s really, really nice of them. And what are the initial challenges after your relocation to Singapore? And how do you tackle them?
[00:10:14] Keika: Right, so the biggest challenge I faced right after I moved was definitely the COVID situation because I was in Singapore by myself with no relatives, no friends, just starting my career.
And yeah, with COVID, I couldn’t go out, I couldn’t make new friends, no community to help me. So yeah, the first couple of years was definitely lonely. But right after when COVID started to settle, I started to make some new friends.
And the way I did that, I say, is just to take it slow and to make it known that you’re looking for connections.
[00:10:54] Keika: So, what I mean here is you will meet one friend, and then just who will then introduce you to maybe one of their other friends that you just venture out from there.
So, you don’t need to think about it in a way that you need to make many, many new friends in one setting. Just yeah, just get to know each person one by one.
And if you make it known that, oh, I’m actually looking to make new friends, you know, people are generally quite nice here, so they will definitely help you.
[00:11:25] Destiny: And what about the people who are much shyer, uh, who are, you know, maybe they are not really vocal in expressing their needs to make new friends. So, what’s your advice for people who are typically on, you know, the quieter end?
[00:11:43] Keika: I’d say to take it slow because definitely, I myself am not a very extroverted person. I’m the type of person who will have maybe one, two, or three very close friends. And, you know, I won’t have like hundreds of friends
So, what I did also was just to maybe find one or two friends that really resonates with you and build your relationship there and not to rush into making more connection.
[00:12:22] Destiny: I think your idea here is to be very intentional with the kind of people that you mix around with and also, your advice to people who are slightly shyer is to make the first step to make an effort, probably with a little encouragement from others.
And I think it’s also important that to know what they intend to get out of these friendships because I think for people who are slightly shyer, they’re not really vocal with what they want.
[00:12:55] Destiny: But I think perhaps with a little encouragement from the people around them, you know, and also if when they see the blossoming of a fruitful friendship and what it may look like, I think that would greatly affect their decisions to do so as well.
And so, what are the kinds of support you received while working and living in Singapore from, say, your family?
[00:13:23] Keika: My family, I’d say we would have video calls every couple of months. So, we would just catch up on how each of us are doing.
And because I was just starting off my career back when I came here, I would share some of the struggles I was facing and get some advice from my parents.
[00:13:45] Destiny: Are your parents currently working now?
[00:13:46] Keika: Yes, my dad’s still working, so he will, yeah, give me advice as a senior in the workplace.
[00:13:56] Destiny: So, he’s back in Japan as well?
[00:13:58] Keika: Yes.
[00:13:58] Destiny: And what about your workplace at GJC? What kind of support have you received from your colleagues or even your managers, and your bosses?
[00:14:07] Keika: So, when I joined there were actually two other fresh grads that came with me, so it definitely helped that there were other people at the same level as I was who were going through similar things.
So, we would, yeah, just catch up on a regular basis, share how we were doing and our struggles, and yeah, just give each other advice.
[00:14:32] Destiny: And what about a local community in Singapore where, where it consists mostly of your friends and your social circle?
[00:14:40] Keika: I’d say this part was something that I struggled with in the first maybe one, two years moving to Singapore because I did struggle making new friends when I just came here.
But recently, now that the borders open and I’ve made many new friends compared to back then, my friends will definitely support me in a way that I can just detach myself from work whenever I’m with people who are outside of work.
So, we will just have fun over the weekend, and it’ll give me a nice, like, refresh session.
[00:15:17] Destiny: Could you share with me, like, what do you do with your friends over the weekend? What kind of activities that you guys, you know?
[00:15:26] Keika: Oh, I mean, it depends, but I do like to go out for, like, cafe hopping with my friends, go to nice restaurants. There are a lot of good food places in Singapore, so we will, like, try to go to those locations.
[00:15:43] Destiny: So how do you maintain a connection with your Japanese culture and roots despite being in a foreign country?
[00:15:50] Keika: I’d say that there are some parts of me that is typically set to be Japanese, so for example, typically people say that Japanese are quite modest and they’re polite, and I feel like those are qualities that I have, and I do take pride in that.
So, yeah, it’s something that I try to keep with me. But, of course, if there are other… say, like, different cultures that I resonate with, I will also incorporate that in my life.
[00:16:24] Destiny: And I also realised that before you and our other Japanese colleagues, before they leave the office to have a client visit, there’s a term that you would let everybody know that you’re going out?
[00:16:37] Keika: Oh, itte kimasu.
[00:16:38] Destiny: Yeah. And I feel that that’s really nice to let your colleagues know, like where you’re going and stuff.
So, I feel that that’s you basically still retaining that side of you that’s really Japanese and really courteous and polite.
[00:16:57] Destiny: And can you share with me your experience as a foreigner navigating through the workplace in Singapore? And what are some memorable experiences you’ve had being here?
[00:17:08] Keika: I say one main reason why I enjoy going to different places is because it allows me to travel to locations that I will usually not go.
And in Singapore, I feel like each location has its own unique vibe and atmosphere, which is something that I still to this day enjoy experiencing.
[00:17:31] Destiny: And you know, I think most people, at least from what I heard, you mentioned that Singapore there’s not much to explore, perhaps maybe for locals, but for foreigners like ourselves, do you think the same way?
[00:17:48] Keika: Um, well, definitely it is a small country. So, after maybe a few years, you kind of just get used to all the locations out there, but I am still interested in the difference between Japan and Singapore.
And I’m still amazed at how different, but similar some parts of some cultures are.
[00:18:14] Destiny: And, you know, aside from cafes, maybe there could be one or two places, a place that you would recommend to your friends who are visiting from Japan. Are there places as such?
[00:18:25] Destiny: For me, for example, I love Universal Studios. I know that it’s not the biggest place, but I just find it to be a really exciting getaway.
And because I just, you know, whenever I head over there, I just feel like I kind of forget the stress that’s behind me. And I thoroughly enjoy myself over the really thrilling, exciting rides. And I feel like I just can’t get enough of it.
[00:18:52] Keika: Okay, and in that sense, I always recommend East Coast Park to my friends coming to Singapore because I’m from Tokyo, a lot of my friends are also from Tokyo, which is the city area.
So East Coast Park is just a nice place, like, a place that you can see the ocean, and there’s the greens, and there’s also the hawker centres, which we don’t have in Japan, so it’s a different experience.
[00:19:24] Destiny: There is no hawker centres at all in Japan?
[00:19:25] Keika: No.
[00:19:27] Destiny: And, oh okay, that’s interesting. I didn’t know that.
[00:19:31] Destiny: Okay, so were there life lessons that you’ve learned while working here at GJC that have helped you become a better individual?
[00:19:40] Keika: Um, working in a multicultural environment has definitely taught me to be more open minded and patient with others. Because I say communication in general is a very complex thing, even within the same community.
So, interacting with colleagues and even clients of different backgrounds and nationalities is an even bigger challenge. And even more, for some people, English is their second or even third language, so there’s the language barrier as well.
So, now that I’ve worked here for over three years, it’s, I feel like now I always try to understand the deeper context of what people are trying to tell me, even if it’s not stated clearly in their speech or message.
[00:20:30] Destiny: How do you make out the, the context of what people are saying? I know that, you know, communication is a skill, and it’s easily thrown around by everybody.
But I feel that sometimes all talk and no listen isn’t exactly communication. But maybe for you, it might be different. So, what efforts do you take to initiate to understand people on a on a deeper level?
[00:20:58] Keika: Like whenever I’m communicating with people I always try to think like, oh what is this person trying to tell me, what are their intentions behind their messages? Like I really try to read into the deeper meaning, and sometimes there’s no deep meaning- deeper meaning.
So, I don’t maybe necessarily need to do it all the time, but I’d say definitely it’s helped me to avoid miscommunication on various occasions.
[00:21:30] Destiny: Great. So, do you have any advice? You know, for fellow women who are thinking about or have plans to relocate to Singapore?
[00:21:39] Keika: Yeah. So as a woman living alone in a foreign country, it can definitely seem intimidating, especially if it’s far from your home country. But I can definitely say that Singapore would be one of the best options out there, just because how safe and convenient everything is here.
It is a small country, like for one, you don’t have to worry about traveling for hours just to get somewhere, and also the taxi here is very convenient.
So even if you’re out for dinner or you’re out late, you don’t have to worry about getting home safely, which is one of the most important things living by yourself in a foreign country.
[00:22:27] Destiny: Yeah. I feel like I can totally vouch for this because this is something that I think, especially women, we ourselves will never take this for granted. And I think Singapore is yes, indeed, definitely one of the safest places that I have personally been.
I don’t have to worry if my laptop will be stolen if I leave it on the table for too long. I guess people are generally more honest in being here.
I think I do appreciate the law and especially, you know, when, when laws are stricter, I feel that it also gives people a sense of security, I feel like to really keep the country together.
[00:23:12] Destiny: So, maybe you can share, you know, how do you build this skill of adaptability? Because hearing from what you’ve been telling me that you’ve lived in, I would say, various countries, how do you adapt from one country to another?
How do you fit in into the society and everything else?
[00:23:33] Keika: So, one is to be open minded. You need to understand that you are the one that is in a foreign environment. So just keep an open mind that most likely everything you know will be different.
And another thing will be to take interest in the local community, whether it be their culture, their background, their history. Understanding why some things are the way it is will definitely help you understand the way the modern, you know, the society that you are in at that time is the way it is.
[00:24:11] Destiny: So, I feel that I’ve learned greatly from you today on this podcast, Keika. Thank you so much for joining me.
[00:24:19] Keika: Thank you so much.
[00:24:22] Destiny: Uh, yeah, for joining me and, and, you know, telling me your stories, like what you’ve been doing in the past and how you have blossomed from, you know, from a fresh graduate into a full-blown working adult.
[00:24:32] Destiny: And it’s been three and a half years since you’ve been in Singapore. I hope you have been enjoying your time here.
[00:24:37] Keika: Yeah, definitely!
[00:24:39] Destiny: And I just wish you all the very best in everything that you do. To our audience, I hope that there will be huge takeaways for you through this podcast with Keika. Thank you so much, Keika!
[00:24:52] Keika: Thank you so much!
Podcast written and edited by Destiny Goh
Marketing Communications Executive
#VoicesOf… Gabriel Tan: Emotional Intelligence in the Marketplace
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An ex-banker turn Consultant, Tan Gabriel, shares the importance of Emotional Intelligence (EI) and why it matters in a people-first industry.
Destiny Goh: Welcome back to episode six of #VoicesOf. My name is Destiny, and joining me today is consultant Gabriel Tan, whose portfolio is in banking and finance. Hi Gabriel, please tell us about yourself and what it’s like being in a recruitment industry today.
Gabriel Tan: Hi Destiny. For me, I used to work in a bank, and of course, with being in the bank, I get to communicate with lots and lots of people.
Gabriel Tan: So, since joining Good Job Creations as a recruitment consultant, I still get to fulfil what I love to do, which is to communicate and have conversations with clients or even with candidates. Because to me I think the way for me to my happiness is to communicate with people.
Destiny Goh: Oh, that’s great. So, could you tell me about your previous career working in a bank? How would you describe yourself and your working style? And ever since joining Good Job Creations and still handling a similar portfolio as before, were there any significant changes that you’ve noticed about yourself?
Gabriel Tan: I think the main difference while working in a bank and working over here in Good Job Creations, I think the most important thing to take note is the corporate life, the difference, because the bank is all about numbers, and the working style that you have to bring to the bank, you need to crunch numbers and really perform well.
Gabriel Tan: Over here, I realise in Good Job Creations, yes, there is still expectations to be met, but I think for my working style, I think more on improvements to work much more smarter in terms of waking up early. You know, people say, the early bird catches the worm. I know it’s a very old-fashioned way of saying things.
Gabriel Tan: I believe, you know, the working style is still always having conversations with candidates or even with clients because I love to always have a conversation with someone to find out about their life, not only just what they want in their career.
Destiny Goh: So as most of your initial interviews are done through phone calls, what aspects do you look for in a candidate other than the qualifications stated on their resume? And what are your opinions of soft skills and transferable skills?
Gabriel Tan: So, Destiny, to answer your first question, what do I look for in a candidate? I think the most important thing I always see in a candidate is whether can this candidate communicate with me properly. What do I mean by communicate properly?
Gabriel Tan: Given a scenario, let’s say today I call you Destiny. So I ask you a question and ask Destiny, what do you like to do?
Destiny Goh: I think at the top of my head right now I, can think is, I like to eat. But that’s not really appropriate to say in an interview.
Gabriel Tan: So, of course, then again, if let’s say you just said, mentioned, I like to eat.
Destiny Goh: Yeah.
Gabriel Tan: Then the conversation ends. Because, you know, there’s nothing that I can add upon or at least act upon to drive the conversation. If given in my scenario, what I’ll do is, you know, I’ll maybe share with you destiny. Oh, I love to eat. I like to go down to McDonald’s to have a burger. And my favourite burger is cheeseburger. So, this allows communication threads. When you leave threads for people, this is how you actually can latch upon these threads and engage them.
Gabriel Tan: So, Destiny, if you feel that you like cheeseburgers, and then that is where you can communicate with someone and tell them, “Hey, my favourite is also cheeseburger. I love the pickles a lot”. Yeah, this is something that I feel is very important in a candidate when you even bring it towards the interview selection as well.
Destiny Goh: So, and your opinions of soft skills? What do you think about them? Is it applicable to jobs? How does it come into play, especially transferable skills, from one job to another?
Gabriel Tan: A lot of interviewers or hiring managers, they not only want someone to, of course, do their job, but to also think on the spot, or put you in a tough situation.
Gabriel Tan: So sometimes when I share with my candidates, let’s say, for example, given a scenario, what I do is, if a hiring manager offers you not the job, but another job within the role, how would you, if I throw this question back to you, how would you react? Would you want to take up the other job or the current job that you’re interviewing for?
Destiny Goh: I think for me, I’ll be quite taken aback, to be really honest, but I think I would take the initiative to ask the hiring manager. What does this other job entail? And what can I potentially bring to the table, and how can I use my skill sets?
Destiny Goh: And why does the hiring manager think I’m more suitable for this role?
Gabriel Tan: So, just to bring back to the example, when I hire for relationship managers, and of course, if the hiring manager does ask this question, the candidate has to be put on the spot, but you see the problem is you cannot say no, yet, if you say yes, it’s wrong.
Gabriel Tan: Why? Because they are looking for someone who is only interested in this role and no other role. So, if you give it a scenario. Because as relationship managers, you realise you can never say no to a client in a certain way. But you need to know how to answer it politically right. So, of course, what I share with my candidates is always to tell them to thank them for the offer.
Gabriel Tan: And of course, say that maybe after I do well in my current role, which I applied for as a relationship manager, in the next two to three years, then I can actually explore this different role. So, what I’m doing is I’m not rejecting you, yet at the same time, I’m motivated to do this current role.
Destiny Goh: I think that’s a very good perspective from what you’ve shared earlier.
Destiny Goh: So, having been an experienced relationship manager yourself, can you share with us what being a relationship manager in the banking and finance industry was like? And what are some crucial skills we can adopt into our respective careers?
Gabriel Tan: So, you know, Destiny, what I do as a relationship manager is to manage people’s wealth and, of course, try to make sure that they hit their financial objectives in life, you know, be it to earn a million dollars in retirement by the age of 65 and things like that. But I think what I have learned as a financial advisor and relationship manager is about asking questions sparking curiosity with the client itself.
Gabriel Tan: Because once the client is curious about the product and then, you know, or at least curious about something, they want to actually find out more. So given the scenario, you know, Destiny, in a networking session, what would you do if, let’s say, for example, you know, you are supposed to network with someone? How would you introduce yourself?
Destiny Goh: I feel like I would go up to them and try to make a conversation about the other person instead. Because I realised if I were given the time to talk about myself, I probably would never put a full stop to it. But, in this previous podcast that I heard from Celeste Headlee, she spoke about how to talk and how to listen.
Destiny Goh: So, practising active listening is a good way to start where we actually don’t only listen for the sake of listening, but listen to understand. By active listening, I’m able to understand more from their perspective and also formulate questions that revolve around what they do and try to make the conversation about them and not steer the conversation away and make it all about me.
Gabriel Tan: Yes. That is what I would answer as well. Because you see, if I give you an example, if I come up to you in a networking session, I would say, “Hi Destiny, how are you”? Full stop. Whereas, what I can do to, you know, to add on to your point is to share something interesting about yourself.
Gabriel Tan: This allows communication threads to be created so that I can tap upon. I think that’s very important in terms of skill sets that you can potentially adopt. But at the same time, to tap on your point, listening is also very important. Good communication skills also come with a good hearing ear.
Gabriel Tan: So what I mean is to actually listen and listen to understand the person’s feelings. Because once you understand the person’s emotions and feelings, you are able to address his needs. And once you address his needs, the person is more susceptible to listening to you as well.
Destiny Goh: That’s a really great approach that you’ve just shared.
Gabriel Tan: Oh, there’s this famous video advertisement that I always remember at the top of my head, and most Singaporeans always listen, or at least have seen this interview. [00:09:00] It’s with Go90FM. This is where only listen to the good stuff. But of course, you pick up because why? This is where you learn where is his main concerns.
Gabriel Tan: And then, you really address the situation because sometimes, in a conversation, you need to pick up what is his pain point rather than all the fillers. Sometimes, that is, in a way, a deflection or a defence wall that they put up as well.
Destiny Goh: So, earlier this year, you won a Top Contributor award. Congratulations once again for exhibiting the core values of Good Job Creations. Teamwork, lighting up the environment, the working environment especially, and going out of your comfort zone to offer help to your colleagues. And effectively practising social awareness. So, what is your purpose in doing so? And what did you want to achieve out of doing all these things?
Gabriel Tan: For me personally, I think, of course, no one wants to work in a toxic environment. [00:10:00] Correct. Yes. So, of course, I think work harmony is something that I always strive to achieve because happy people mean happy results. So, when I first joined Good Job Creations, they shared with me one of their key cultures: fun and enjoyment, practising teamwork and work harmony.
Gabriel Tan: And I realised while helping others, it may seem, you know, to me, I always love to help someone. Yeah, of course. I’m not any Gandhi or something, you know, I always want to help everybody, but I think with good work environment will allow you to be much happier.
Gabriel Tan: Here’s a little secret: For the past eight years, Monday is my most dreadful day to come to work.
Destiny Goh: Monday blues.
Gabriel Tan: Yes, but you know, after joining Good Job Creations, Monday is my most exciting day to start. I always look forward to Mondays, so I realised this is something that, for me, it’s not out of my comfort zone. But it’s more of my way, as mentioned in you know earlier, that I love to drive conversations, I love to always engage with people. So maybe that is why I feel what I always want to achieve in a company is to have a good environment to work with well-minded people like me.
Destiny Goh: Earlier, you mentioned about why Monday is your favourite day. Could you like, elaborate further on why, you know, how is your Monday different than every other one?
Gabriel Tan: Well, because firstly, if you realise Monday, I always, you know, whether it be in the bank, this is where your numbers come out. And it’s the most dreadful day of Monday. I will have to face not only myself, if I don’t do well, then second of all, I have to face my managers.
Gabriel Tan: And that is something that I never liked. You know, whether I’m doing well or I’m not doing well is something that, you know, nobody likes to be faced with this kind of situation. And of course, I think even in Good Job Creations, yes, we, we also still face these kinds of numbers. But it’s very [00:12:00] different because for me like I mentioned, if the work harmony is there, there’s fun in the work. And I love to do what I’m doing, which is to speak with people, speak with candidates. I actually thoroughly enjoy myself here. So, I think that is the main difference compared to the past.
Destiny Goh: That’s amazing, actually. So the next question will be, here at Good Job Creations, being emotionally intelligent is constantly emphasised because we aim to always put people first. So how, what are your takes, and how do you interpret this particular skill, and how do you incorporate it into your daily tasks?
Gabriel Tan: So, I think the most important thing when we say we put people first, I think the best word to use is empathy.
Gabriel Tan: I think empathy is something that, of course, it’s not sympathy, yeah, it’s empathy. So, of course, when I speak to a certain candidate or any candidates along the line, I always want to find out from the candidate. How are they feeling? Why do they want to leave their job?
Gabriel Tan: Considering that they have been in the job for maybe, there’s been five to six years. What has made the decision for them to leave their job? Because once you understand how they feel, it is so much easier to match them with a job that can provide them that.
Destiny Goh: So because most of your interviews are done via phone calls, so it’s impossible for a recruiter like yourself to read, let’s say, eye contact or even body language. So the best way of ‘reading’ these people is to actually ask, to literally ask them how they’re feeling, instead of playing the guessing game with them?
Gabriel Tan: I think the number one thing I always try to do; I know it’s not easy, but we always try to establish trust with someone. And, how you establish trust with someone is to put them first instead of yourself. Because, you know, in recruitment, it’s still a sales number. I need to close for the client, but I think when we put our candidates first and understand their problems.
Gabriel Tan: It will be much easier for them to know what they want in life or at least a job that can really fulfil their needs. And if you always hear me, it’s always about someone’s needs that need to be fulfilled before we put them in a role itself.
Destiny Goh: So, as a recruiter who has to deal with different people and their different personalities and even expectations, how can you adapt self-management strategies when faced with unexpected communication challenges to always ensure that it’s a pleasant experience for both parties, especially when you’re done when most of your interviews are done over a phone call?
Gabriel Tan: I think, firstly, thinking on the perspective of a candidate. For me… staying calm and composed is something that you need to always do—maintaining your composure when facing with unexpected challenges. You know, the number one thing I always do if I face a problem is to take a deep breath, three-second silence, before I answer.
Gabriel Tan: I think that is one strategy I always take. Be it dealing with people of all walks of life. Second of all is adapting your communication style. What I learned in my first ever job, before as a bank relationship manager, I was in a sales role, and I realised it’s all about mirroring someone’s style.
Gabriel Tan: Because once you know how to mirror someone’s style, you are on the same wavelength with the person. So, given a scenario, if you can sense that someone, this person is much more concise, he prefers short to one-word answers. I know, yes, of course, as mentioned in the previous conversation, it’s not to have that, but, at the same time, you need to reflect on what the person is doing, in order to, to feel that you’re on the same wavelength.
Destiny Goh: Have you ever encountered a person who was extremely rude over a phone call? Or perhaps not giving you the answers that you need because it’s quite difficult to proceed with this particular candidate if they do not give you enough information about their past experience, their skills, and so on and so forth.
Destiny Goh: So how, how do you manage? Because not many people can remember to count from one to three like you do. Personally, for me, I think I will need to step away from a bit of a conflict and then cool my head before I come back. So, how’s it for you?
Gabriel Tan: Okay, so I mean, I have definitely engaged difficult clients or difficult customers in the bank as well. So, for me, the number one thing is always first, like I mentioned to you, keep calm and composed on your end, because we can get easily triggered by this kind of situation for most people. But second of all is to always mention it to them in a very professional tone or even in a much more lighter tone.
Gabriel Tan: Because if you fight fire with fire, you only get fire. Okay. So for me, as much as, of course, you must learn how to manage his expectations and tell him that, you know, if he doesn’t like, for example, he doesn’t share things, then it is actually very difficult for us to bring to the hiring manager, unless, he mentioned he’s uncomfortable with sharing with us, but then that comes to another can of worms because that means there was no trust that was built between you and the candidate itself.
Gabriel Tan: So, I think, of course, there will always be one out of a hundred people that will, you know, react to this kind of situation. But the most important thing I always realise is as long as we do not get triggered, we keep calm and composed and, of course, manage his expectations.
Gabriel Tan: I think we should not shortchange someone just because maybe that day he was having a bad day. And that’s why he’s reacting that way.
Destiny Goh: Alright, yeah. So, last question. What’s one piece of advice you’d give to someone struggling to navigate challenging situations? With someone whose emotional state is slightly different than theirs?
Gabriel Tan: This is something I feel, of course, not everyone does it. It’s actually to validate their emotions. What I mean by validating their emotions is to acknowledge and understand, even if I don’t share the same feelings with that person. So, try to always understand what they’re going through.
Gabriel Tan: But I realised that validation can help diffuse tension. And once tension is down, that is when the person is more open to listening from your own perspective, because you realise that, that means you’re actually allowing them to agree with them to a certain extent, even though if you don’t.
Destiny Goh: Alright, so what about this? If the person still rejects to see things through your approach, then how else will you diffuse the situation?
Gabriel Tan: I think, for me, it’s always to remain 100 percent first professional, even though, of course, people have certain perspectives that they would like to put in front.
Gabriel Tan: I believe the individual also has his own perspective as well. So, the most important thing is if we can’t achieve what we want to do, sometimes we need to learn how to step away from the situation and acknowledge that maybe this is a foregone matter altogether.
Gabriel Tan: You know, the saying of you can’t change a leopard’s spots—same thing.
Destiny Goh: Thank you very much for your sharing, Gabriel. I really appreciate it. And I also hope the audience will have huge key takeaways from this piece of interview with you, to hopefully apply it in their careers as well.
Destiny Goh: So, thank you for your time, Gabriel.
Gabriel Tan: Thank you, Destiny.
Podcast written and edited by Destiny Goh
Marketing Communications Executive
